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Personal Defense Tactics & Training

Self-Defense Tactics For An Enraged Attacker

by Dave Spaulding   |  May 25th, 2012 88

Think this handgun can stop an assault from an enraged attacker? If you expect it will, you've got another thing coming.

I spent some time last week talking with a police officer working on the East Coast. I was headed that way to teach at an International Association of Law Enforcement Firearms Instructors regional training conference on extreme close-quarter combatives. The officer contacted me because he was scheduled to attend the conference but could not due to an on-duty injury. He told me the injury was directly related to the conference content and went on to tell me the story.

 

What I was told chilled me, but I wasn’t really surprised because I had heard it before. The officer is an experienced law enforcement professional who is a state-certified instructor in firearms, defensive tactics, O.C. spray, expandable baton, verbal judo, etc. He has made hundreds if not thousands of traffic stops over the years and on this occasion made a “routine” (no such thing) traffic stop on a subject who was talking on a cell phone while driving.

 

The stop progressed like many do until the officer attempted to issue a citation. “At this point the suspect became enraged,” he told me. “He got out of the car screaming so I backed up and pulled my pepper spray and told him to calm down or I would spray him. He continued to advance toward me aggressively so after several verbal warnings, I sprayed him. The spray had no effect. As a matter of fact, it had more effect on me than him.”

 

At this point, the officer did exactly what he was trained to do: He escalated to the next level of force and pulled his expandable baton. “I gave another verbal warning but he still came at me,” he said. “I struck him repeatedly in the green zones [approved areas of the body that will cause minimal damage to the attacker], but he just shrugged them off like they never happened.

 

“I have never seen such a raging bull response in a suspect,” he continued. “Nothing worked. He was able to pull my baton from my hand, and we started fighting hand to hand. He went for my holstered weapon, and I did what I was trained to do–I grabbed the bottom of my holster and pulled up so he could not pull my gun out.

 

“He was finally able to overpower me and was behind me choking me. He was whispering in my ear ‘I am going to kill you with your own gun’ the whole time he was choking me.”

 

This officer admitted to me that he was “going out” when a group of nearby citizens decided they were not going to let this happen in their town and interceded. The suspect was put behind bars and the officer was rushed to a hospital for treatment. He will be okay and after a period of convalescence will return to work.

  • Maccabees

    it would seem to me that in your job there is one priority: survive. "writing the ticket" is only a job well done if you are able to go home at the end of your shift. do what it takes. if you do less than it takes, any legal liability considerations will become a mute point. no one will sue your killer for violating your civil rights.

    • wondering 56

      Your so right do what you need to do, then let the lawyers sort it out later ,I would rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6.

  • ToryII

    Another tale of lies to give police an excuse to reveal our secrets. Oh those poor defenseless police; how could anyone harm them. Like abused children, starved for attention, they try and con the ignorant public that we are their enemy and they are the only PURE race.

    This article, like most things written by cops, has contradictions. Ever been hit by a hollow baton ? Did it tickle. Give us a break, police; you armed like Infantry, and we are unarmed like sheep (because of you).
    Not a day goes by without the prima donnas whinnng to their favorite politician coercing them to create another law that protects them from us. Fking big mouth cowards.

    The gun industry needs to stop catering and patronizing police (the Govt's strongarm).

    • Dave

      Toryll….so why didn't you want to accept the ticket? You sound like the typical "citizen" that does nothing but whine and complain and when push comes to shove turns tail and runs…moron.

    • Wolvie

      "Another tale of lies to give police an excuse to reveal our secrets."

      Our secrets? Since the best designs in firearms, ammunition and tactics have come from law enforcement…isn't it US who is benefiting from THEIR secrets?

      "Oh those poor defenseless police; how could anyone harm them."

      I don't know, but I suspect someone like you could give the rest of us insight.

      "Like abused children, starved for attention, they try and con the ignorant public that we are their enemy and they are the only PURE race."

      So, abused children are con artists and Nazis?

      "This article, like most things written by cops, has contradictions."

      Yes, because no one else writes things that have contradictions. Of course, saying it has contradictions is different than actually pointing out the contradictions which is what you failed to do.

      "Ever been hit by a hollow baton ? Did it tickle."

      No, but I suspect you have. So, don't keep us in suspense…How did it feel?

      "Give us a break, police; you armed like Infantry, and we are unarmed like sheep (because of you)."

      Its not their fault if being arrested prevents you from having a firearm.

      "Not a day goes by without the prima donnas whinnng to their favorite politician coercing them to create another law that protects them from us. Fking big mouth cowards. "

      And not a day goes by without internet trolls spewing drivel just to vent their hate. Ah, I miss the good ol' days when they just howled at the moon in frustration.

      "The gun industry needs to stop catering and patronizing police (the Govt's strong-arm)."

      Yes, because ignoring your largest customer whose experiences help to make a better product is just good business sense.

    • Paul

      Hey Toryll,
      You ignorant, useless, piece of archaic excrement from a bovine animal. You don't want to run into me on the street and refuse to do what I ask you to do. If my life is placed in danger by the actions of someone like you, you can bet that I will be going home at the end of the day and you…………..will be going one of two places, and after reading your comments, I'm sure you know what those two options are.

      • percynjpn

        Wow, you just proved part of his point with your idiotic response. Who's ignorant again? Typical cop: arrogant, rude, ready to be violent to anyone -criminal or not – for any reason,no doubt obese and slovenly, too, like most of your ilk. That's why so many law abiding citizens can't stand a-holes like you!
        I hope you try what you threatened him with on the wrong armed thug – and then YOU can go to "one of two places" like you deserve, you scumbag!!

        • Wolvie

          Did you actually read what he wrote, or were you so eager to post your hatred of police that you neglected to read what is there?

          He said that if anyone puts his life in danger, he going to do whatever needs to be done to make sure he goes home at night.

          Your answer to this was to call all cops names, suggest that he's fat and slovenly (like most cops), and then wish for him to be killed.

          Wow, what a class act you are!

      • plepgeat

        "You don't want to run into me on the street and refuse to do what I ask you to do."
        -Why not? Are you going to respond inappropriately and violently to the word 'no?' Are you one of those officers who thinks that "lawful order" equals "anything I tell you to do?"

        "If my life is placed in danger by the actions of someone like you…"
        -Ah, now it makes sense. Saying 'No' to a police officer is, in your mind, a death threat. And saying 'No' to a police officer will lead to arrest or death, if you are that officer.

        Congratulations, Officer Paul, for simultaneously endangering the lives of your fellow officers by acting in a way sure to justify violent behavior by citizens, endangering the lives of citizens by acting like a spoiled and well-armed child, and wiping your hostile little bottom with the Constitution that you are sworn to uphold and defend. You, sir, are shameful.

    • James

      Toryll, 'Tis better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.

  • MTZ

    ToryII hit the nail on the head. To bad so many gun forums are cop lover dominated and delete what should be open discourse on forums.

    • paul

      What a surprise, another useful idiot.

  • https://www.facebook.com/blueeyeddragon76 Jay Pearson

    you cop haters are reading way more into it then is really reasonable… the point of the article is that despite any gun you may have or spray or training, that when the SH*T hits the fan and you are being attacked by an enraged person, whether it be drug induced or otherwise. Most things that would stop in a "normal" situation may have little or no effect… kind of like trying to pull an attacking dog off a victim.. The example of a police officer was used as a case example, but the article was written for everyone who wants to make it home at night… you need to grow up.If you dislike the magazines and forums, well then you can feel free not to read them…

  • http://www.facebook.com/Errickii Dennis David

    I am not a cop never been one however I have worked with them on those streets and know first hand through experience how utterly alien an enraged human can get.

    Those of us that criticize the police in this country need to spend a year in their shoes to have some idea of what they actually do and have to deal with.

  • Kalev

    One thing for sure, I wouldn't want to be a police officer, risk too high, pay to low and always damned if you do/ damned if you don't. And I have notice police professionalism has come down in the last 10 years, too much "us versus them" attitudes, we're all equal in God's Eyes but we make freewill decisions alone.

    • Jeepers Creepers

      working in law enforcement is one of the safest jobs out there. You do not need any college (2 weeks and your out on the streets). The perks are great and you can do anything you want. The best perk is you get to use all those fine firearms. I can think of at least 10 more deadly professions to work in 20 seconds.
      It takes a special type of mental illness to be a cop. If you don't have it. Then your not going to fit in with the other officers.

      • gus

        actually yes you don't need college, but if you don't have 4 yrs. of college at least in most decent towns to work in your not even going to be given a chance. Sure you might be able to get a job in Newburgh, ny without college but who the hell would want to be a cop there. Oh and so you know the burgh surpassed Detroit in murders per capitia.

      • Guest

        Most decent town require at least a two year degree. current adamemies run about 16 yo 18 weeks. Clueless doesn't begin to describe your comments.

        • Jeepers Creepers

          Not in My City or county. But I'm Glad to see that other places require more. Thank You for the insight.

      • wondering 56

        First let me inform you that within the past 3 yrs. the requirements to become an officer of the law has changed,most major police department are requiring a degree preferably in criminal justice,there are a few small towns that still has that ole may berry (barney fife ) police department, but that is rapidly changing and I think that it should,but how ever you must give these guys their props for doing what most of us fear to do.

  • Joel J

    I find that firing one warning shot to the heart of an attacker makes him stop and take notice. This usually works if an attacker is not wearing body armor. If that is the case then a warning shot to the head works just as well. Expect nothing.

  • Hooah Vet

    First, I'm not a cop, have no cop friends, but I sure think they get a raw deal over us when it comes to protection. They have the means but are not allowed to use it by rules of the government (state) who mandate by the pressure given by John Public, that be us … now who's really whining here. Give us that same situation with a baton, and I guarantee we won't worry about green zones on where to strike the bad guy to stop him. You can always move to a state like Tn., and if you have a clean record, you can even carry a gun.

  • Chuck

    Whining cops?! Sounds to me llike a couple of people got on the wrong side of the law and blame cops now. Cops are the best indication of how the polically correct doctrine has simply devastated this country. Laying out protocols such as 'first use spray by holding sprayer in strong hand and press the button…' if this doens';t work, and after more verbal warnings indicating …' then you remove your baton from your belt…' so so stupid. You give cops the weapons they need, tarin them, and let them distribute as needed. If they do something wrong there's absolutely no doubt they'll be punished- problem, is, usually they're punished when they do it right! This country has lost any semblance of common sense.

  • Blow'em Up Joe

    Dave Spaulding the author of this article is complete bozo…. The .45 acp will stop any attacker. It's the ONLY round that will stop & reverse the blood flow to the heart regardless of were you shoot someone! The hydrostatic shock wave of energy is sent thru the body and ends in the heart. The .45 acp is the only gun to produce 200 atmospheres of pressure due to it's heavy weight and slow speeds. That much pressure will burst any vital organ & heart!!!! With the reversal of blood flow the heart simply bursts!!!! I've spoken to the #2 ranked sniper of Vietnam who said time & time again even a shot in the elbow was lethal with the .45 acp Hundreds of dead VC's show how lethal the .45 acp is with only a graze. Get a clue !!! Do your homework and the laws of physics speak for themselves – Josserand formula – google it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Suffers fools poorly

      Blow em Up Joe – Tell me this is a joke – you honestly believe that shooting someone in the elbow with a .45 ACP is lethal? By way of proof you say "google it"? So if it says it on google it has to be true, huh? It is invidiuals like you that give the whole firearms community a bad name. You claim to know the law of physics and yet claim that the .45 ACP is the only round that will stop and reverse the blood flow to the heart – what about a .50 cal? How about .338 lapua? Oh, wait, I quess your buddy the sniper told you that all you have to do with those is wave it at the enemy and they will drop like flies. By the way, I googled 'Blow'em Up Joe' and it said prime example of delusional idiot. Google said it, so it must be true!

    • Jeepers Creepers

      What about a 500 grain bullet at 390 FPS from a derringer (45/70). It sure goes thru 4×4's easy at 35 yards. Expands at 200 meters. I fired over 600 rounds thru that handgun before I got rid of it. It was easy to conceal. But I wanted one that both barrels were 45/70. The one I owned was 45/70 upper and 45 colt/ 410 shotgun below.

      • Wolvie

        Mental Patient,

        Make a video of you shooting just 6 rounds in a row from that derringer and hitting a 4×4 at 20 yards and I'll send you $1,000.

        That should be easy for a guy who has fired "over 600" rounds from one of these guns and hit a 4×4 at 35 yards.

        For extra credit, show us how you managed a hit at 200 meters, tell us what the target was and then show us the expanded bullet. This should be easy since you already claimed it expanded at 200 meters…so you obviously must have already done it to be so certain.

        • Jeepers Creepers

          I do not think that you have $1,000. Did you read the part that after three years of owning that fine gun. I sold it along with a S &W P.C. model 29-15. If you reload for your own type and model of gun. You can hit almost anything at any distance. It is called fine tuning.

          • Wolvie

            Really? That's your story now?

            Hmmm…earlier you said you sold it because you wanted one that was 45-70 in both barrels. You are now saying it was because you wanted yet another gun.

            Please, get your lies straight before posting. Make a chart if it helps.

            But for $1,000, I'm sure you could get your hands on one just to make a video and prove you can do it.

            Oh, wait…criminals, sociopaths and the mentally unstable are prohibited from owning firearms…

            Nevermind.

  • Phoenix

    If an 'enraged' anyone gets out of their vehicle, the law changes! Cop or not, I would throw that baton in the trash. I've taught a version of Gung-Fu whos strikes are 90% eye techniques, which I seriously used once defending against a 6'7 attacker [I am 5'10]. I am alive and he now lives with one eye. I can punch a large man holding a phone book, and from a couple inches knock him several feet back. Yet, I have hit a man [6'3] in the adams apple with my fists origin 2' away, cocked just beside my R breast, and didn't seem to faze him at the time. Many physical encounters have led me to engage in 1 of 2 responces [respectively] to subdue a larger enraged attacker, before shooting. Eye, and taser, leading into an authorized choke, if the later is needed.
    Expect to live!

  • Grasshopper

    Gung-Fu Master (aka the phone book avenger) –
    I have been in law enforment for over 20 years and have not had to engage in as many confrontations as what you list just as examples. 5'10 – I didn't know they could stack fung-gu that high! You and Joe need to hang out and impress each other with your great imaginations. I bet if the 6'3 individual you struck in the adams apple had been holding a phone book he would have gone down to! I do believe that you are a master in SFB.
    (if you are confused the last two words are 'for brains'). Why don't you write an article and show your courage by using your real name?

    • Al Brady

      Thanks, Grasshopper! You saved the veins in my temples from popping!

      • Paul

        Ahh, Grasshopper, you make man with .45 acp hand cannon very very hoppy. Now I know that my 1911 will be able to end a bad confrontation successfully with out all the jumping and kicking and other B.S that these so called experts want to shovel at us. What makes one of these dumb ass's think that we would let one of them get that close? Do they think they can perform a roundhouse kick, or some lotus crap, or catch the bullet in their teeth and spit it back at us? Bring it Kung Fu Guru.

    • Wolvie

      But, but, but…

      What about the 5 Point Palm Exploding Heart Technique?

      Pai Mei taught that to me, ya-know! However, he never did teach me the Phone Book Avenger technique which was obviously taught to him by Phoenix.

      • Paul

        Hmmm, what about the 230 grain jacketed hollow point exploding in his gord or center mass? I see you are on the same page here.

  • Al Brady

    Folks, I've wondered for quite some time if those young sportsmen disguised as complete damn fools might be Liberals infiltrating our sites just to defacate on the floor and foul the place up.

  • Jeepers Creepers

    Words always speak louder than any weapon that an officer can use. Most cops are trained to always control the suspect. What about respect and kindness. So the person might have been blowing off steam. I don't think reading the article that the officer first tried respect and kindness. Instead the officer tried some form of a weapon. I think that just made things worse and the suspect more outraged. If the suspect really wanted to kill the officer; the officer would have been killed. I thinking from the suspects side of the article. Always treat people like you want to be treated. But alot of times when I got a ticket I needed to blow off some steam. Luckily for the officer, he understand that fact.

    • Wolvie

      Luckily for the cop, he understood that you just needed to blow off steam?

      Luckily how exactly? What, you are threatening harm to someone for doing their job and citing you for doing something wrong? You think you have the right to act like a POS when you were the one in the wrong? Real tough talk…All from the comfort of mommy's basement while anonymously posting on an Internet board no doubt.

      Trolls like you with such a hatred for cops and such a high regard for your own (imagined) skills always fall into 1 of 3 categories:

      1) You're 12 to 14.
      2) You're a convicted felon with an axe to grind
      3) You're a social outcast desperately looking for attention because even at middle age, people are still stealing your milk money.

      • Jeepers Creepers

        You talk and write like some one in law enforcement. Everything you stated is what a law enforcement officer is in real life. The facts speak for themself's. I only do harm to some one that wants to do harm to me first. If an officer treats me with respect then I will double that respect back. If his first idea is to do me harm then I will meet that double also. My skills go far past training. It is called a mental illness that I was born with and have grown to understand and control it. But if some one pushes the right button all bets are off.

        • Wolvie

          Ah, and that explains it all!

          A person with mental problems who has had negative encounters with police. Or perhaps you believe you're the Incredible Hulk…since your imaginary skills go so far beyond training (which, in real life means, "I never had training but I'm so bad that I don't need it!)

          Here's a clue, someone acting (what you would perceive as) rude is NOT the same as someone threading your life. So you can stop your posturing and chest thumping…you are impressing no one.

          As far as me sounding like someone in law enforcement…I'll take that as a compliment. But the fact is I'm a trainer, not in Law Enforcement…though I do train civilians, police and military. It is from years of doing this work that makes it very easy for me to spot out the wannabes, the trolls, the children and, of course, the mentally deficient just from their postings (or ramblings).

          As a final note, people with mental problems, a history of negative dealings with police and the penchant for violence because of the inability to distinguish rudeness from lethal harm should NEVER be allowed near a firearm and in most jurisdictions, they are prohibited from possessing one. Which makes me wonder what you are doing here and what you could possibly add.

          • Jeepers Creepers

            Sounds like you have a far lack of training yourself. Becuase you missed the true meaning of the article. In fact everybody on earth has some kind of mental illness. Mine is I feel a life in general is worth less than a cup of coffee. I understand my problem and control it. What is your mental illness? or are you insane? Thank you for your time.

          • Wolvie

            Nope, I didn't miss it at all. And, yes, I could always use more training and intend to seek it out for the rest of my life.

            Because, unlike convicted felons with mental problems, I know life is precious and experiences and learning make the whole trip worthwhile.

            Oh, and I don't have a mental illness…but it is so nice to see that you took the time to project your own shortcomings on to me. I hear that people devoid of morals, standards and common social skills tend to do that to make themselves feel better.

            So, are you feeling better yet?

          • Jeepers Creepers

            You have just found your mental illness yet. When you find your Mental Illness and understand it. You will find inner peace and be a better person.

          • Jeepers Creepers

            I forgot "NOT".

          • Wolvie

            Aw, how cute! You're still projecting.

            Do you find the need for more justification through projection before or after you take your meds?

    • gus

      jeepers creepers, the person should be happy that I wasn't that cop, because the second I hit him with the batton and it didn't have effect, you can usually assume they are on some sort of drug and aren't thinking straight, I would have put 2 in his chest, if he still kept coming my mag. would have been unloaded.

    • Paul

      Hey Jeepers,
      Do you have LEO experience? Understand one thing. An LEO does not get dressed each day and put on his/her weapon and shield with the sole purpose in mind, to go out and find a confrontation to get into. Things go from 0- hell in less than two seconds and you need to be aware of that fact. Being nice and courteous is a good thing when interfacing with the public, but it is no substitute for condition yellow at all times.

      • Wolvie

        No Paul, you don't understand.

        According to our resident mental patient here, a cop has to bend over backwards to be nice, accommodating, unintimidating and never confrontational or aggressive.

        Our mental patient here, however, reserves the right to be as aggressive, nasty and confrontational as he likes because, you know, he's just "blowing off steam" and everyone has to accommodate him.

        So, you see, according to Mr. Self-Admitted-Sociopath here:

        Cop acts rude…use lethal force against him. Because the cop is a POS.

        Mental Patient acts rude…that's his right. Because he's just blowing off steam and the POS cop should know this.

        Mental Patient acts rude and cop reacts rude…use lethal force against him. Because the cop is a POS.

        Mental Patient acts rude and cop acts nice…that's OK…but the cop is still a POS in his mind.

        I hope this clears things up!

        • Jeepers Creepers

          That last sentence is 100% correct. Thank You for clearing that up for everybody.

          • Wolvie

            Really?

            My last sentence was, "I hope this clears things up!".

            So in addition to all of your other shortcomings, we can now add, "Sucks at reading comprehension" to the list.

  • https://www.facebook.com/paul.beatty.75 Paul Beatty

    My instructor told me, why take chances when someone is trying to kill you? Put two in the "pump" and one in the "switch."

  • Franc

    I think there should always be two cops in every car… the best protection would be a fellow cop with you at all times, or maybe at least a K9!

    • Jeepers Creepers

      The answer is to better train the officers in personal relations. Two weeks of training and two days at the pistol range is all the basic training a so called police officer recieves. The blind leading the blind. I think the most dangrous thing on earth is a under trained law enforcement officer. My personal insight into what I have seen over the past 50 years. Yes I was trained by America's best (USMC 1974).

      • SamF

        What was your MOS?

        • Wolvie

          Making believe that he was in the USMC and continuing to believe that he has access to firearms.

          • Jeepers Creepers

            Wolvie! If indeed you are an firearm trainer. I feel very sorry for the people that you have and are about to train. Yes I have a DD214. Do you? or are you a coward like the current President and the GOP person that wants to be President. Final note Wolvie. I happen to own several firearms and a couple that can stop an elephant at 40 yards (a full sized bull) with one shot. What have you got? Do you own anything that will shoot thru a solid brick wall? Or do you only plan on hunting humans and paper targets that do not shoot back. Have a nice day Wolvie and hope your fever gets better.

          • Wolvie

            Ah, no you don't.

            You are a mental deficient and a self admitted sociopath. You have nothing, you aren't allowed to own firearms and I suspect that even the computer you are using right now is borrowed.

            But by all means, keep fantasizing.

            The only time that criminals with mental problems who don't value life should be near firearms is when they are in front of the muzzle.

          • Paul

            Hey Jeepers,

            Shut Up !!! Don't insult my Marine corps you low life puke. So what was your MOS? You probably don't even know what that is. I'm not going to tell you either. If you can say what it is, it is because you were not in my Marine Corps. BUM !!

          • Paul

            Meant to say, that if you can not say what it is, you were not in my Marine Corps.

        • Jeepers Creepers

          I scored 157 at the range during boot. Every Marine knows what that means. You can be a 20 year man and never get above E-3. My boot was in S.C. and my station was N.C..

          • Paul

            Jeepers,
            Keep talkin crap, You are not specific at all about anything you claim. I bet your one of those clowns out there who say that your records are sealed because of what your job was. So give us some verifiable evidence of who or what you are or were.

          • Shadow

            Most Marines would say "Parris Island" or "MCRD Parris Island". I have never heard any Marine say "My boot was in S.C."

          • Wolvie

            Shadow, you still didn't hear a real Marine say it.

          • Shadow

            I would also like to know what his MOS was. 0311? 0331? 0341? 3537? What was it?

          • Wolvie

            Probably 6969.

            Because whatever he thinks he did, he most likely double-sucked at it.

        • Jeepers Creepers

          My dd214 states secondary duty station or MSS. The MOS must have come after 1975. Thank you. I had to look at it after 35 years. I found out that they did not pay me for two months of active duty.
          My secondary duty station was stated on the DD214 has Charlotte depot. I was a clerk.

          • Wolvie

            Mental Patient,

            Marine MOS was available long before 1975 & every Marine remembers their MOS.

            But, that you for playing. Now, back to your hole.

      • Troll hunter

        First of all I have no problem calling you a retard at this moment. Police academy I attended was 17 Weeks at 50 hours a week. So clearly your post show your true ignorance. Second the only way you were in the corp for a year is if you got dishonorable discharge for your clear incompetence.

  • Jeepers Creepers

    I love this. All my hands up or down. Seem to be down. That means I'm doing something rite. Keep those negative numbers coming.

    • Wolvie

      Yes, because the mentally deficient thrive on any attention…be it positive or negative.

      • Jeepers Creepers

        Wolvie you never answered the question. When and what branch of service were you in?
        I try my best in life to piss every body off. Looks like I'm doing a good job here. Thank you.
        Remember that I was in the corp in 1974-75. I would have to go back to my DD214 for any information.
        Yes like the people on this site. I just shorted everything up To say S.C. and N.C..
        Have a nice day everyone.
        Wolvie it looks like your the one that craves attention. I just debate what you say.
        Like most people in law enforcement you do live in your own small world. Get out more. And stop playing with those pea shooters that are only good for humans and paper targets. Move up to a real gun.

        • Shadow

          One Year in the Corps? That's it? Are you fu*king kidding me?!?

          • Jeepers Creepers

            I went in has a two year enlistee. Any old time Marines will Know that if you do not score at least an 160 at the range, you will not see any combat duty or rank. With a 157 score at the range the only job open was M.P. or clerk. My firearm in the Marines had #2 lead in it. That was two years. I went in Jan 2. Used Vacation time at the end. But I was still a Marine.

          • Jeepers Creepers

            I'm Still an Marine.

          • Wolvie

            Hahaha!

            Translation:
            "I wasn't able to do anything at all because for 2 years, my gun was broken!"

        • Darkness

          Valor thief!

          • Jeepers Creepers

            Not at all!!!!!

        • Wolvie

          Mental Patient,

          You are a sociopath, a liar and of course mentally challenged. You seem to put high value on what guns you own because you think buying something in the store somehow equates to an accomplishment.

          Is it any wonder you like to piss people off? Losers do that when they discover that they are unable to add anything of value. Sorry to burst your bubble, but since you aren't pissing me off, you have actually attained the status of failing at being a failure. No, I just enjoy playing Whack-a-Mole with you by slapping you in the head when you pop up. To me, it's funny watching you spin your tales while everyone points and laughs.

          Yes, your psychosis makes you believe you are actually debating. Now that gives me a belly laugh! You've debated nothing, Corky. You just make wild lies and claims.

          Oh, and if you are going to continue to lie about being a Marine, then perhaps you should make sure you get the correct length of a tour down pat.

          Now, go and surf the net so you can look at pictures of all the pretty guns you aren't allowed to own.

  • AResto

    I dont understand? The person is comming at you, verbal warning should be good enough. I know of a cop that a criminal wrestled and put all his weight on the cops leg and broke it. Cop is disabled and had to retire. What do you carry a gun for? Belive you, me.. There are no laws in my state where we can carry as citizens, but I some times do, and i will shoot your ass, empty the clip and reload if you come at me. People who carry, cops included, should have more training, and practice close quarter defence. How do expect these people to protect us if they cant even protect themselves? Sue me if you want to, take me to court, what ever, i will shoot your ass if you treaten me or my family.

  • Ed Carol

    Training, training, training. Law Enforcement officers should be able to handle almost any situation without implements. JiuJutsu was what I studied for almost 30 years on the department. Many times the action was so fast that the handgun, club, spray were just not feasible. The smallest I handled was an female amateur boxer at 5' and 90 lbs. She broke my nose but still got put in jail.The largest was 6'7", 350 lbs football player, drunk and mean. Japanese style JiuJutsu is about misdirection and leverage. Size really doesn't matter as long as the training is good. The best trained I had to control was a Karate black belt intent on whipping a cop. He got two days in the hospital. No weapon used.

  • Jerry B.

    When I was young Hoppalong Cassidy would shoot the gun or guns out of the bad guys hand or hands. Once I saw him draw both pistols and shoot the holsters off the bad guys belt before he could draw.

    Unfortunately if the bad guy had not drawn his guns yet then why did Hoppy draw and shoot his holsters first? Maybe Hoppy should have done a little jail time?

    Much latter when Bronco Billy (Clint Eastwood) walked into a bank that was being robbed he shot the gun out of one bad guys hand, then shot it again when it was in the air. Maybe he shot it twice when it was in the air? Anyway no one got hurt because the bad guys instantly knew he was a top marksman.

    Unfortunately shooting upwards in a building with more than one floor – could have hit someone upstairs. Maybe any cowboy walking into a two story bank should be loaded with bullets that burst into many smaller bullets when they hit a wall or ceiling/upstairs-floor? Maybe if it had occurred outdoors the bullets should have computer chips and little parachutes on them.

    Now please do not get jealous that I am making more sense than at least half the posts here.

  • Bob

    What ever happened to tazers? I know the police has a certain protocol but I have always seen police use tazer guns on asailants that didn't cooperate and tried to harm them. What ever happened to self-defense? I would have just used what I learned in hand-to-hand combat and called the paramedics to respond to his injuries. Police brutality is just another law to protect the criminals because any civilized person wouldn't attack a cop. Next thing you know the politicians are going to pass a law that everyone has to give up the 2nd amendment accept felons. The leaders of this country are just retarded!

  • Jerry B.

    As we all know the story above is about a policeman that was on the loosing end of an “unarmed” encounter with a psychotic or drugged up male, who was choking him while telling him he was going to shoot him with his own gun.

    I worked more than a few years in a big states overcrowded prison system. At one point I worked in a medium security prison that was the dumping ground for the main overcrowded maximum security prison. The politicians would not build new max prisons and the local media was not our friend. Many common prison gangs were formed in those prisons in the 1960’s and 1970’s. And having worked a previous prison that caught the overflow from maximum security mental hospitals, I have opinions about some dead coworkers, and violent inmates.

    The newer super-max prisons are beautiful to my eyes.

    The invention of the pepper spray was overdue. The invention of stun guns and Tasers was nice to see. Unfortunately understaffing of police departments and prisons is still a common way for politicians to “save money”.

  • Jerry B.

    Afterthought about prisons.

    Violent, paranoid, or drug addicted inmates can explode at anytime. Gangs plan their attacks in more private places if possible. Back in 1960’s and 70’s when I was working prisons, most employees and inmates were considerably safer in or near crowds, even if the crowd was only inmates. Six of my co-workers were killed, none in a crowded place.

    It is sometimes surprising just who will step up and save a victim of assault or a suicidal person. I saw many times when inmates rescued other inmates, or took some action to avoid a planned attack on staff. Once an officer was attacked from behind and choked to kneeling/sitting position, whereupon the inmate broke a taco sauce bottle on the cement, to cut the officers throat. Another inmate stepped up and kicked the attacker in the head, ending it.

    Once an unarmed correctional officer was being chased by an inmate with a sharp metal object. The officer ran out into the yard where the gun guards on the fence could see. They opened fire with one shooting the heel off the inmates shoe. He fell and decided not to stand up with rifles pointed his way. Sometimes endings were happy.

  • jeebus

    I have sat next to god for the last 60yrs discussing about how much bs people spout on these and many other messageboards.

  • Mark Banker

    I would like to express my gratitude to all those who choose to be police officers. I have never had a problem with a police officer, even when I have been stopped and issued a ticket or arrested for doing something stupid. In all cases I was the one who was wrong and the police officer was enforcing the law. My children have been taught to respect police officers and consider them to be on their side, because they are! To all of you officers out there, stay safe, go home to your family's at night and know that the vast majority of us respect and appreciate you.

  • Jerry B.

    Afterthought to an afterthought.

    There are always winners and losers and those who must sort it all out.
    That day I mentioned, in the 1960’s when an inmate with a weapon was chasing a guard, and the towers began shooting, was the beginning of the end of the “Country Club Prisons”. The beginning of the end of really nice prison administrators hired only for their psychology degrees not their experience or knowledge of prisons or inmates.

    Two winners were the two new correctional officers that had just walked into the yard on orientation, saw the situation, and turned and walked out, instantly resigning.

    Some losers were the inmate workers and supervisors in the laundry when the full jacketed military 30:06 bullets bounced up off the yard and went through the corrugated metal laundry building wall, bouncing around inside but actually hurting no-one.

    Other winners were the people who wanted the Mini 14 adopted. And those who wanted more maximum security prisons built to higher standards.

    There were many many more interesting stories but this one was easy to write, and they all lead to the same conclusions.

  • OakieDoc

    Regarding pain and severe injuries–I am an emergency medicine physician, and I have recently cared for 2 LEO's–one hit in the tibia (shin bone) by an AR 15 which resulted in the bone sticking out of his leg, and the other officer hit in the right shoulder with a .38 + P, destroying the joint. Amazingly, neither officer at the time complained of much pain, although these injuries would certainly rate a "10" on that mandatory idiotic pain scale. After being hit, each officer continued to fight until the fight was over (both bad guys ran away). The human body is amazing, and can suffer amazing abuse while still continuing to function. People stop fighting for one of three reasons: they just give up, they are immediately incapacitated by a CNS (central nervous system–think brain or spinal cord) injury, or they hemorrhage to death (can take a LONG time).

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