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The NYPD and the Kahr K-9: No Substitute for Training

by James Tarr   |  February 16th, 2012 88

I read an article some time ago, but I still come back to it repeatedly. It provides what Rush Limbaugh likes to call a “teachable moment.” From the December 12, 2011, New York Daily News:  “NYPD brass to cops:  Stop using Kahr K-9 pistol.”

 

The article reports that the NYPD has instructed its officers to stop carrying the Kahr K-9 pistol off duty.  The Kahr K-9 has a standard 7.5-lb trigger pull, and over 5,000 of them have been sold to the NYPD over the years for use off duty.  This 7.5-lb trigger is reportedly “so light” that it has been blamed for a series of accidental discharges—more than a dozen of them in the last few years, none of which has resulted in a fatality.

 

The article details how, after five years, Kahr was unable to supply pistols to the NYPD with the requested 13-lb trigger pulls.  “We worked for about three years to try to modify the gun,” Kahr’s Frank Harris stated.  “After three years of trying to meet their requirements, we just had to give up.”  Glocks issued to NYPD officers have 12-lb pulls—the “New York Plus” trigger.

 

In 2010, the NYPD had 21 reported incidents of accidental discharges and in 2009 there were 23.  Of those 44 incidents, only 14 occurred during a confrontation with a suspect.

 

There are so many things wrong with this story that I hardly know where to start.  It continues the horrible precedent the NYPD has set by blaming equipment for bad training.  The Kahr K-9 is an excellent, safe weapon, and no one who knows anything about shooting would call a 7.5-lb trigger “light”.  The trigger pull on the Kahr isn’t exactly short, either.

 

RELATED READ: Review: Kahr CM9

 

The NYPD is apparently incapable of training its officers to keep their finger off the trigger, so instead of increasing or improving their training (which would cost the department money, as well as be an acknowledgement that the training was the problem), they mandate that the gun companies provide them modified weapons.

 

I don’t dislike Glocks, I love Glocks.  I carry a Glock every day, and am in fact wearing one right now as I write this.  However, Glocks equipped with the 12-lb New York Plus trigger are an abomination. A few years ago at an editorial roundtable, the InterMedia Outdoors staff had a friendly competition involving a Glock with such a trigger.  Everyone involved reported that the pistol was nearly impossible to shoot.  G&A’s Handgun Editor Pat Sweeney (a veteran pistol competitor and Master-Class USPSA shooter) won the contest, but to do so, he used a technique he wouldn’t recommend anyone use—he was pulling the trigger with both his index fingers. A 12-lb trigger on a Glock only makes it harder to shoot fast and accurately, thereby increasing the chances that an officer’s bullet won’t end up where he or she intended.

 

No one suggests putting horrible sights on a handgun will make someone shoot it more accurately, so I’m hard pressed to find the logic (that’s assuming there is any) behind equipping a handgun with a trigger that is worse than the factory offering.  No one has ever suggested a heavier trigger enables a user to shoot a handgun faster or more accurately, and if they did, they’re an idiot.

 

If you have been properly trained in how to use a handgun, you know to:

  • not point it at anything you are not willing to destroy, and…
  • to keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target and you’re ready to shoot.

If you follow just these two simple rules, I could make the argument that a lighter trigger pull was safer than a heavier one, for it would result in less sight movement during the trigger pull process.  The only people who like heavy trigger pulls are lawyers and bureaucrats.

 

The problem here is training, not hardware (at least not the way the NYPD brass means).  The brave cops of the NYPD deserve better—better guns (Glocks and Kahrs with trigger pulls not measured in metric tons), and better training.

  • Mark Hayes

    With Bloomberg as mayor it is surprising that the NYPD carry handguns at all. With the city's handgun ban for citizens there should be no crime ;)

    • armydoc37

      amen i feel sorry for the new yorkers well not really they voted for him so they got what they wanted,

  • BigTex

    What civilized country exists where it's citizens speak with apparent pride about carrying a gun every day. Your country really is screwed.

    • TomG

      A civilized country where the citizens realize that freedom is the responsibility of the people not the government.

    • Mike Meserve

      God bless the United States of America, and the state of Texas. What is uncivilized about a government trusting it people to be armed?

    • Libertarian52

      You're not a native Texan, are ya? If you were you would remember the Luby's massacre where in the days before concealed carry was finally made law, some homicidal nutcase murdered a couple a dozen innocent people.

      Instead of the typical knee jerk "New York/California" reaction of passing more gun control, Texans wisely passed shall issue concealed carry. Thanks in no small part to the efforts of Suzanna Hupp who was there and witnessed her own parents murdered by that POS scumbag and was unable to defend them or herself because she obeyed the law and left her gun in her car that day.

    • Tracy

      Well, BigTex, I guess we've established you ain't from Texas.

      Nobody in this country is *required* to carry a gun. However, it's nice to have that option, and the unalienable right to do so. Should I be accosted by a miscreant, I would prefer to defend myself and my loved ones with a gun, rather than the hot air you seem to prefer. In the actual event, I think you'll find the latter ineffective. You may take pride in your high moral principles from the vantage point of the afterlife, while your widow grieves over your corpse in this one.

      • Alan

        Nice shot Tracy !

      • Big Tex

        Who is talking about required? Who said defend with hot air? Most who carry guns do so because they are cowards and know of no other way to defend themselves – grieving and corpses – what nonsense you speak.

        • GTRMANsteve

          Cowards?! Really? You are a class A moron. Bravery in the face of armed thugs intent on causing harm to you & your loved ones without being armed will get you and your loved ones killed. I'm glad I don't depend on your for protection.

          • Little Tex

            Cowards carry guns my friend it's that simple.you all talk as if you have a firefight to get groceries. More get killed each year through misuse and ignorance. Moron? You don' t understand the mealning and I laugh at you.

    • dale

      Hey big Tex. Obviously you come from a Communist, Socialist dictator run society that frees criminals for lousy childhood experiences and thinks that a cell phone is going to save you from the bad guys. If we are so screwed because we can and do choose to protect ourselves then why don't you skeedaddle and ride off into the sunset wherever it is you come from. That's my opinion Tex.

    • https://www.facebook.com/markej Mark E. Johnson

      Obviously NOT a Texan, BigTex! Even those who don't carry here in the Lone Star State don't make such a ridiculous, unfounded premise. My country affirmed that unalienable, God-given right in the Constitution and Texas backs THAT up with a solid Castle Doctrine. Beware; if you visit the United State of Texas, you need to mind your P's and Q's, because stepping out of line can cost you severly. An armed society is a polite society.

      • BigTex

        Thank the lord that such thinking and it's mindless promotion of essentially non existant gun laws will in time be entirely self correcting and rid the world of buffoons. As for an armed society being a polite society – delighted such simple minded nostrums pass so easily for considered thought in certain quarters Oddly enough were you ever to travel beyond your local 7-11 you would if you opened your eyes quickly realize that Americans actually do not fare too well on the polite society scale relative to the rest of the civilized world although there are places currently engaged in murderous civil war where you might well feel at home.

      • BigTexh

        Well done Mr. Polite society. You don't like what someone says so you threaten him. So sad…. So very, very sad….

    • JimR

      I'm guessing BigTex isn't even from our Country given such a lame statement.

      • BigTex

        And I am guessing that such a well articulated and compelling argument guarantees that you are

    • Dennis

      If the Country is so "Screwed" Go back to your Homeland and let us be as "Uncivilized" as we like!

      • BigTex

        You need not concern yourself – the collective actions of your countrymen give testament to your being very uncivilized without the fear you clearly have of my impacting upon your behavior one iota.

    • BigTex

      God has left the building called USA some time ago I am afraid and any country whose citizens feel the need to 'pack a piece' to go for a quart of milk has my sympathy . America has become a laughing stock on the world stage and perhaps the few of you recognize a difference between independent thought and jingoism (look it up) might reflect on why this might be. America once was great. It is a sadness that it is no more. But if the collective wisdom is that the answer to murder by handguns is to carry more handguns well you are all welcome to it and the problem shall eventually sort itself out by the pure math inherent in the proliferation of handguns. Only to the ignorant does freedom mean one must be free to live in fear.God bless common sense

      • Justin from Kentucky

        BigTex my one question to you, if you are so against the carrying of legally purchased firearms by legal citizens for protection from so many thugs and hoodlums that only care about their drugs, why are you getting a Handguns Magazine email? That just doesn't make much sense to me, I would think you would be getting the Brady Campaign email. Also if you don't mind, please change your name from BigTex to something else, your opinions are a disgrace to not only the fine citizens of Texas but to all other citizens of the South

        • BigTex

          I understand your confusion. Any deviation from simplistic thinking is cause for concern by many of your countrymen. I actually own a number of handguns- in a land however that does not see the need for one to always have same at hand which likely explians the many thousands of deaths avoided from handguns each year. I think handguns are great. I also believe that the casual manner of US regulation is the cause of thousands of needless deaths and hence I guess I give a damn about people dying needlessly more than some.

  • Scott

    What civilized internet troll doesn't know the difference between "its" and "it's"?

    • BigTex

      good for you. It is all about the spelling….

  • percynjpn

    "What civilized internet troll doesn't know the difference between "its" and "it's?"
    Ha-Ha! Good one!

    Great article; NY and its laws/rules continue to defy logic – damn shame.

    • Shalimar

      Try looking at the current Canadian "gun control" disaster… sadly it makes NY look good… (and that is insanely hard to do)

  • Joe

    Excellent article! I believe a lot of the issues with NYPD officers firing many shots but completely missing their targets stem from the 13lb trigger pull. It causes officers to jerk their guns when firing.

  • poolboy

    typical madness from the bloomberg/kelly fiasco in nyc. the apple has the potential to be the world's greatest city.misguided logic like this holds it back. ny will progress only when leadership evolves past the cave man level. i feel for the ny officers who must risk their lives daily. no wonder you can't get them to try to stop a crime.

    • armydoc37

      they want crime in new york with it being a sautuary for ILLEGAL immigrants. and the ciitzens there have no rights. such a corrupt country we live in now. and homeland security my ass, what a JOKE. if any law enforement officer were to do what janet napolitian has done would of not only been fired but charged for direcliton of duty,,but not obamas baby…lol

    • johnnymoi

      Los Angeles isn't any better. The same liberals are running that city as well as the entire state.

  • K.C. Cheeseman

    I seem to get by ok with my hair trigger glock at 5.5 pounds. Not one AD in 6 1/2 years of carrying on duty. If the NYPD could get their heads out of their asses long enough to take a basic gun saftey class, maybe they could learn to keep their fingers out of the trigger guard until they were ready to shoot something….

  • Bill K

    I think Mayor Bloomberg should be the one carrying a gun and the first to arrive/respond to violent calls and show the police how it should be done. As for the heavy trigger pull increase. It is training properly and proper gun handling and trigger control, that is the problem. Not the "Light" trigger pull. Bill K

    • N J W

      This NYC police requirement is just another reason to NOT visit the city. Police are almost helpless during a crime.

  • Larry

    This is such a dangerous situation. I better send all my pistols back to the manufacture and have my trigger pull set to #15's. If #13's is just right for the NYPD, than I better make mine even more! What a screwed up situation. It's called TRAINING. If you train properly, than you should have proper out comes. Some Jack Wagon is teaching the NYPD to keep their damn finger inside the trigger guard! I don't get it. What about all of us CCW's out there? Are we having accidental discharges daily?! I don't think so. And most of us don't get near the amount of training as the NYPD does. If you have the trigger set at #12 or #13's, you might as well just have a trigger lock on instead!

  • GregB

    If the gun is for off-duty carry it should be up to the person to choose whatever they are comfortable with.
    If they have to pull the trigger too hard it takes them off target and possibly hit a bystander.

  • jeff r

    hmm i seem to remember a self cleaning m-16 years ago that jammed in combat … the gun was blamed the ammo was blamed but when the new training manual about how to keep your sweet 16 clean came out …. the gun worked…and the problem went away
    perhaps training the NYPD is siomething they should take a good look at… just a thought…
    i have a glock with a 5.5 lb trigger .. carried it since the early 90's . never had an accidental discharge… imagine that .

  • jeff r

    futhermore for big tex are you in the USA?? are you from the USA? if not please go home.to your country… i find your comments offensive
    pride about carrying a gun and being able to carry a gun are what keeps this country civilized. take a good look at SYRIA right now where ordinary citizens are not allowed to carry weapons..

    • Craig K

      Bravo jeff r, Bravo

    • Roger C

      I agree 100% Firearm ownership and the abililty to use them properly when necessary
      keeps us free, period.

    • BigTex

      So you have to look to Syria as a benchmark. The defense rests its case my friend. As for finding comments offensive – thicken your skin…..

  • bowmanr

    There is nothing accidental about an "accidental discharge." "Accidental discharges" are caused by stupidity, not that I'm calling the officers out on the street stupid serving the public selflessly, rather the NY brass that refuses to address the problem properly through training. The only way the pistol will discharge is if the finger is on the trigger, and it pulls the trigger rearward. No finger on the trigger=no discharge. Simple as that.

  • Tim McGuire

    Just another reason I do not need to ever visit NYC or Chicago either. They are both run by terribly misguided thinking.

  • Joel Jaworowski

    Everthing about NYC is a bunch of crap – its mayor, its crime, its unwillingness to think logically. I'm carrying a Kahr CW40 as I write this and it's a wonderful firearm. It's exactly the same as a Kahr K9 except that it's a .40SW instead of a 9mm and a polymer frame instead of a stainless one and I carry every day, all day long and never had an AD, (knock on wood). The reason for that is TRAINING. Jim Tarr is absolutely correct in his assessment of the problem.
    Mayor Bloomberg, get a brain and use it! Tell your boys to get some proper training and they'll see no more accidental discharges. You'll see cost savings there too in less law suits in personal and property damages.

    • JimR

      Unfortunately it isn't just NYC..its New York State and its liberal led politicians. It'll take forever to get anything to change.

  • Hasnot

    As obama said (the police officer acted stupidly:)

  • Bol L

    Keep them out of donut shops, and train them in PROPER USAGE.The "PROBLEM" will go away. Typical morons running the show.

  • Tracy

    Wow. It's not like Kahr's have a short trigger pull. You've *really* got to work it to touch one off accidentally with a Kahr. I suspect Bloomberg's actual intent is to turn NY cops' pistols into rather ineffective billy clubs.

  • MR9MM

    COPS. WHAT CAN I SAY. I KNOW WE NEED THERE SERVICE BADLY BUT MOST ALL COPS AND HIGHWAY PATROLS CAN NOT HIT A BROAD SIDE OF A BARN WITH ANY HANDGUN. THEY JUST DO NOT PRACTICE ENOUGH. IN MY AREA A COP PULLED A WOMAN OVER FOR A POSSIBELE D.W.I. AND THE COP ASKED HER TO STEP OUT OF THE CAR AND SHE WOULD NOTSO THE COP ASKER AGAIN MANY TIMES AND THE LADY REFUSED TO STEP OUT OF THE CAR. THEN THE LADY PULLED A .38 ON THE COP AND HE RAN TO THE BACK OF THE WOMANS CAR AND AT THAT TIME THE WOMAN GOT OUT OF HER CAR TO FIRE ON THE COP THE COP SHOT 9 TIMES AT ALMOST POINT BLANK RANGE AND MISSED 9 TIMES AND THE 10 TH SHOT HIT THE LADY. NOW IN THE TRAING I HAVE I COULD HAVE HIT HER WITH THE FIRST SHOT BUT A COP THAT HIS GUN IS HIS LIFE SAVER AND HE CAN NOT HIT A LARGE TARGET AT 10 FEET IS JUST STUPID.

    • Tracy

      Mr. 9, perhaps you could score a hit, and perhaps you couldn't. Shooting at a paper target is a bit different than shooting at one that shoots back. Until you've seen the elephant yourself, it might be wise to withhold judgment.

    • Alan

      Yeah well, it's easy to say if you've never been shot at . Anyone who's ever had an adrenaline dump KNOWS what happens ….. your fine motor skills just jumped out the window.and in a case like that , you're just trying to stay alive.

    • Indy Mac

      That is not entirely true. Especially State Police. Some local units maybe. Being a former Deputy Sheriff there were some that could not shoot very well I agree, then there were some who committed themselves to become good shooters. Those that are not so good need desk jobs. :o)

      I had taken tactical courses and trained and passed the Pennsylvania State Police, Illinois SP. And found their course to be efficient.

      It is not in the 100 lb trigger pull that the NYPD needs. It's just realizing that there will always be somebody who just can't keep there finger off the trigger until the time to use. :o)

    • Snug

      It must be the weather in Florida ,because in Pennsylvania, and all the other states I have visited, the police are better shots now than ever. Everyone not a jerk knows their lives depend on proficiency in fierarms,driving ,and handling tense situations every day.
      It seems obvious your experience has included paper opponents,and the receiving side of law enforcement.

    • Gundog55

      "Hey! she was a skinny gal and as drunk as she was she was stagering back and forth so much I couldn't get a bead on her!"

  • Miamidad38

    I say err on the side of safety. If you need to increase trigger pull to make a gun safer then do it!

    • Alan

      Except …. that's NOT erring on the side of safety It's making it MORE dangerous .

    • Mike_B

      That's the point- the heavier trigger pull is less safe. Have you ever shot a gun? Having to pull hard on the trigger reduces accuracy, resulting in the bullet going somewhere other than where you are aiming. Which increases the chances of an innocent bystander being shot. Or increasing the bad guys chance of hitting you since you just missed him! Everyone allowed to pick up any gun should have had "keep your finger off the trigger" drilled into their head already. No finger on trigger, no discharge. Period!

  • ggb

    ohhh, so that is what the thing is for…it does make a nice hook to hang my handguns by…I guess that explains all the holes in the floor…..
    It is a trigger–don't touch it if you aren't using it.

  • Michigander

    When I read articles like this about "accidental discharge" and politicians who claim to have the " cure all the problems" answers the first thing that comes to mind is that special phrase "You can't fix stupid".

  • h87111

    Why don't they just have the sights removed, so when the "too light" trigger goes off, they just won't hit anything… ;-)

  • jerry, pa

    You know, that whole story could be a lie from the start. The socialist who run that town will not tell the truth anyway.

  • h87111

    It's NYC… obviously politics and payoffs involved.

  • WD40

    Folks: As a former NYPD officer (and current federal officer), let's talk about why the trigger is heavy. It is indeed a legitimate safety measure. The purpose is to avoid a hail of gunfire, some of which can hit innocent third parties, as well as other officers. You forget that, unlike most departments, the NYPD has close to 40,000 officers. In a typical 10-13 (officer in distress) call, you may have potentially dozens of officers respond simultaneously. If you recall, with the Diallo shooting, each officer unloaded his entire magazine, resulting in an innocent man being shot close to fifty times. The purpose of the trigger is to reduce the ability to impulsively unload downrange and make it more of a conscious decision that requires a heavy pull each and every time. While you all might not like it, it is a legitimate safety and management tool for having literally 40,000 officers.

    • Mark G

      I'm no LEO, and my only training is self-training at my local range, but this statement is so full of fail, i had to read it twice to make sure it was serious. Evidently, in order to "avoid a hail of gunfire" and "unloading his entire magazine" on an innocent man, you just make the trigger twice as hard to pull ?? What, are the dozens of officers gonna get tired out after half as many shots ?? Get bored after 5 or 6 and just stop ?? "The purpose of the trigger is to reduce the ability to impulsively unload downrange and make it more of a conscious decision. . . " That's the trigger's purpose ?? I thought that was your brain's purpose Gentlemen, i believe we've found the problem.

    • Sam

      Of 42 years doing firearms training, 33 years has been spent training peace officers amd being on and then supervising a specialized team. We became familiar with the problem when New York City went from revolvers to autos. I had been to New York and saw officers with the habit of keeping their finger on the trigger when not actually shooting but just holding and manuvering with the gun. Their training was so lacking also in other areas, that it seemed a disaster in the making. So the discharges with the autos came as really no surprise. I have measured some New York triggers at 14 lbs. Some trainers, not enough, insisted it was a training issue. Of course, New York polichicken idiot administrators said the trigger needed to be heavier. I am sorry that you are such an obvious example of your departments training. The justifications you use are one of the reasons cops in NY miss so many times AND why they are grieviously depending on a heavy trigger as a subsitute for making trained responses to shoot in the first place. It is also a reason for many not to admit they are wrong while refusing to do legitimate training. Does your present agency also use 14 lb triggers?

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003273026027 Scott Nelson

      Sorry WD40, but I don't see how making a firearm almost impossible to use competently is better than more and focused training, especially stressful force-on-force training. Maybe some of those 40,000 officers deserve better tools if they demonstrate they are capable of using what our Creator put between their ears.

  • Mike

    From personal experience in a gun range w/police officers. I would expect the cause to be training. Too much time is spent with unrelated training. How many refresher classes do the NYPD take on harrassment? How many refresher courses do the take on "keeping the public happy" and how refresher courses are taken on the proper way to handle a gun?
    Going to the range every few months to qualify is not training!

  • h87111

    You can't fix stupid… especially when you're stupid.

  • SemperFlyBoy

    It would be interesting to know how much training and practice time is spent by the average policeman versus the average concealed carry permit holder. I am not a policeman; I have a permit and I practice for at least an hour or two every week at a cold range under a strict safety discipline. Anyone know how much time the average policeman trains with his gun?

  • Indy Mac

    Well, it may be beneficial to those who may become victims of gun confiscation. When they come to take away the guns from legal gun owners, the gun owners will be able to shoot six or seven times while the police try to figure out how to get two fingers into the trigger guard to pull the trigger. Could be a win situation???

    Seriously, being a former deputy Sheriff, my off duty carry on my Kahr's were stock and still are. I own three and carry one daily. Usually it only takes one mishap (usually man made) for rules to be changed because of liability issues. Mayor Bloomberg, quit making sissies out of your officers. sheesh.

  • s3thrr

    awkward…….I've had a Glock for 3+ years , 4.5 lb trigger pull >>> maybe they need to make there own NYPD safety … wonder how they came about thinking an extra 2 lbs would solve anything

  • Wheresmychain

    I guess if your a NYPD officer you need to put a heavy chain on the trigger, hook the other end to your police cruiser and have you partner put it in reverse. Seems a little excess but, whatever works for them. Wonder what kind of trigger pull they have to have on their assault weapons. Better be hooked to a concrete truck.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003273026027 Scott Nelson

    Mayor Bloomberg mandates the NYPD use a 13-freaking-pound trigger! If experienced handlers of firearms can't accurately hit a target with a 13 lb trigger what good would that heavy trigger do for the poor LEO who had to use said firearm to save his own or partners life in a high stress situation?

    Another great reason to avoid NYC!

  • mikkidog

    It does NOT matter how light trigger pull is if YOU KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER!!!! Having a target grade trigger pull will allow more accurate fire. When you NEED to shoot, accuracy counts! ALL properly trained LEO's do that. Obviously NYC has a training issue for 40,000 officers!

  • navdiver

    With an idiot for a Mayor I am surprise New York Cops aren't throwing rocks at the bad guys. Haven't the bad guys heard no guns are allowed in NYC. They should remove the guns from Bloomburg' s guard.

  • Pistol Pete

    I carry a CW9. Trigger pull is perfect, And it hits dead on. It is a perfct CCW handgun.

  • Stunned

    It may be time for Keely to go..

  • Snug

    Since the Mayor of N.Y.C. is such an expert on everything firearm related including sending agents to Pennsylvinia in a conspiracy to make "STRAW PURCHASES" ;it is obvious to all Kahr designers and engineers are wrong!Or…N.Y.C.'s Egomaniac-Sociopath mayor should be sent to Belleview Psych. for a LOOOONG rest.

  • Gundog55

    I bet NYPD is now going to see an increase in medical retirements. "Trigger finger arthritus brought on by work related use of a non-ergonomic tool"

  • Steve666

    I regularly carry a Kahr K40 with the standard Kahr trigger and it has yet to go bang at a time other than when I have intended it to.

  • BJC

    I don't understand how they call a 7.5 lb trigger pull as light it is not. My 45's all have 4 lb triggers and I put the 3.5 lb link in my Glock . I have never come close to an accidental discharge. A 19 lb trigger pull would render a hand gun dangerous and in my opinion useless. Bloomberg is an absolute IDIOT!

  • Bobby Clements

    I carried an 1911 Colt as a LEO duty weapon for 30 years, except when I was on the range training as a State/FBI/NRA certified firearms instructor, then I used a Glock since that's what most of my men and women used. We've never had an unintentional discharge because I taught my cops to keep their bogger pickers off of the freaking bang switch until they're ready to fire. Elementary training 101 at any decent police academy. Don't they send those NYPD cops to the academy and if so don't they have any firearms instructors who's been through the FBI basic firearms instructor schools????

  • Anonymous

    I never post comments…but I have a Kahr MK9 and there is NO WAY you could "accidently" pull the trigger.

  • OhPlease

    Police officers? Enough said. I say we don't need any more accidental discharges from adrenaline induced poorly trained officers accidentally discharging their weapons especially in non life threatening situations. I say increase it to 20+ lbs. Unfortunately any high trigger pull weight would highly discourage anyone from using the weapon enough during training. There is no way I could practice popping off 100-200 rounds in a session with anything higher that a 10 lb pull…LOL…

  • poolboy

    i wonder what the pull weight is on the s.a.m.s reportedly in inventory at nypd? scary thought isn't it?

  • Geo1

    Just one thought…who in his "right" mind would want to carry a 9mm let alone a Kahr as an "off duty" weapon anyway!!?? I've had the chance to shoot one and I would not. If Blooming(idiot)berg forced me to carry a 9 it would be a Springfield XDm 3.8…just sayin'……

    Kindest Regards….

    In God We Trust…

  • badge4436

    Gents, after 39 years in the law enforcement field, both in patrol and as a detective, I can say it is not only a training issue but a lack of desire on some officers parts to desire the training. I have known many officers who just do the minimum required of them by their agencies, either shooting a paper target while stationary every three or four months. Forget about the concept of moving while shooting or firing from different positions from behind cover. I have attended beginning handgun courses at places like Frontsight and seen beginning shooters trained up during 2 and 4 day courses far beyond the capabilities of the officers of whom I write. Sad, really.

  • Laramy

    The fact is that the NY trigger does not eliminate UD, and also contributes to NYPD's horrific hit ratio. In the recent Empire State Building shooting, more civilians were hit than the suspect had rounds in his pistol. QED, New York's Finest shot several bystanders. I blame both training and the trigger, but more so the trigger. No matter how much you train, shooting under stress with a 12 pound pull will send shots astray. UD is also still a problem, last year we had a cop in Brooklyn fire off a UD in the precinct house while re-holstering his pistol. I suspect Barney Fife had his finger in the trigger guard while holstering.

  • Dave

    I used to shoot a 45 a lot at paper and participated in some practical pistol competition, but I have never aimed a gun at a human being an have no illusions about my current ability to hit a human target under less than ideal conditions. Recently, I bought one of the Kahr 9's that came out of the NYPD for my personal carry piece. My next official act will be to put a laser sight on the Kahr. I will trade the ability to hit a target under stress for the disadvantage of providing a sight reference under low light to an armed bad guy. At 62, you have to admit your limitations unless your Bob Lee Swagger. Any disagreements?

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